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In this interview we discuss Skip Prichard’s bestselling book, The Book of Mistakes: 9 Secrets to Creating a Successful Future.
About Skip Prichard
Skip is the CEO of OCLC, which is dedicated to increasing the world’s access to information and reducing library costs. He has been featured in the BBC, the New York Times, CNN, NPR, and the Harvard Business Review. Skip also served as CEO of ProQuest Information & Learning and CEO of Ingram Content Group.
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Deliberate Leaders, I am your host Allison Dunn, Founder of the Deliberate Leaders podcast dedicated to helping leaders build strong, thriving businesses. Each episode we bring in feature inspiring interviews to help you on your leadership journey. Our guest today is Skip Prichard is the CEO of OCLC and I assume those are just letters that I’m saying I should have asked you that beforehand. OCLC is a, I believe a global nonprofit that’s dedicated to increasing the world’s access to information and reducing library costs, which I think is super cool. Skip is also an Inc Top 100 leadership speaker and author of The Wall Street Journal best selling book, The Book of Mistakes: Nine Secrets to Creating a Successful Future. He is a worldwide renowned keynote speaker. He speaks on topics such as leadership, personal development, growth strategies, culture, corporate turnarounds and the future of publishing. Skip. Thanks so much for joining us here on Deliberate Leaders today.
Great to be here. Allison, you have had some amazing guests. So I’m glad to join the roster.
I feel pretty blessed. I feel like in some cases, COVID has actually been incredibly generous to me in getting access to have great conversations with folks like you. So I like to kick off these interviews with a deliberate conversation. And so ask is what would be your number one leadership tip that you would give our Deliberate Leaders listeners?
A quote that I had from Jim Rohn. He told it to me early on in my career, he said work harder on yourself than you do on your job. And it is so powerful and it had such an impact on me because if you work on your job, he said you’ll make money. If you work hard on yourself, you’ll make a fortune and it really had a measurable impact on me taking up personal development, not just focusing on making a return or getting something for the business, but really focusing on you.
It’s a core pillar of educating, educating ourselves, educating our clients. So that resonates a lot with me. And I’m a huge fan of, of Jim Rohn’s work as well. So thank you very much for that. And so most authors talk about success. And you have a book that’s focused on the mistakes side of things. So I’m just curious what inspired you to write the book of mistakes?
Stevie Wonder, I think he said, life has meaning only in the struggle. And people identify more with your struggle than they do with success. So when you meet with somebody, and they say, oh, I’ve had all these successes, and I’ve done this and I’ve done that it’s not very intriguing is it? But when they say, I messed it all up, I did this, I did that. And when I was growing up, my family took in people of all different nationalities religions races from all over the world. And they were all people who were abandoned, addicted, abused, they had problems. And I would watch my parents work with them over time. And I found that I learned more from somebody who was homeless or had just been homeless than I often did from somebody who is in a job somewhere. Because if you ask them questions, they were more than willing to tell you how they messed it up, and what they did wrong, or what had happened to them. And sometimes it was tragic. I mean, sometimes it was abuse. Sometimes it was a problem. Sometimes they got stuck in a cycle of addiction. But there was the record lessons there that really started to really make a difference to me. And I remember Jim Rohn also would talk about this, he would talk at a seminar saying that, you know, if somebody stops you and you’re driving down the road, and they’re waving their arms and they’re stopped saying, hey, the bridge is out ahead. You don’t just usually just cruise on by and crash. You stop and this is what I saw. And I think mistakes are like somebody waving you down. And wouldn’t it be better to learn from someone else’s mistakes, and not to have to do them, and instead figure out a way around them and to find a way to learn faster to be better. And I think we can all do that. I mean, that’s part of the magic of podcasts and things like this, where you can learn from other people and shortcut your way to better results.
I just posted a quote over the weekend, and I’m not very good at giving credit to in the way that I posted, but it was there’s not enough time to make all the mistakes ourselves. So why not learn from others and just, you know, skip around, skip around those grades? That’s right.
That’s very beautiful that your family took in a lot of folks who needed a handout, I guess. So I think that’s outstanding. And I do love a great story where you learn from the struggle and the learnings that they get from other people. So one of the mistakes that you talked about in the book is when it comes to pursuing our goals and dreams. You say that readiness happens when desire is greater than your distractions. And we’re in a time where there is a tremendous amount of distractions going on, and a hampering or dampening down of desire. So What tips do you have? for people who want recognize that that’s not where they want to stay or be and or those who are distracted, but have a ton of desire and just don’t know what to do with it at this moment?
Great question, Allison, I think, you know, we often just jump into our goals, we often just start we also just take action. And yet, I’ve learned that the most successful people have this balance readiness is when your desire is greater than your distraction. And so there is that two part of the equation and it really is with everything right and even is with say health and exercise. You know, you start off the new year’s resolution, you know, just go it’s your desire, but then we’re distracted by maybe wanting to sleep or the cupcake. So your desire has to be there and avoiding the distractions, even something as simple as a diet or exercising or the gym, but especially launching a business or dealing with the problem customer or something, what is the desired outcome? And what are your distractions and you have to think about that, in that that equation, and it’s different for each person. So a lot of entrepreneurs, for instance, are filled with desire, and they’re just brimming over with enthusiasm. And they’re not prepared for all the distractions that come away like Oh, wait, I have to file quarterly taxes or there’s this legal issue or something, some regulation or an employee’s, you know, not showing up for work. Or it could be that somebody has just doesn’t have enough desire and so if you don’t have enough desire, it’s not pulling you forward. And so the first hot day you just kind of stopped. Because your desire for it’s not really that big, maybe one of those new year’s resolutions you see where, you know what, I’m just gonna give that up because I really, you know, I put that on the list, but I didn’t care. You don’t want to do that if you’re in business, right, where it’s like, well, that business didn’t work, you know, you want to really do that. And so the key is, I think getting ready to launch is really important. Like don’t just launch, get ready to launch readiness is when your desire is greater than your distractions. So think about that. And that that’s personal psychology of motivation. But it’s also is the business purpose and mission and desire there.
And is that more powerful than all the distractions come right? We’re in the midst of it. You mentioned we’re in constant distractions. And so figuring out a way through that your desire has to be pretty vague to get through all of that.
I think you make a tremendously good point, you see a lot of people just kind of launch right like, you know, don’t you know, build it while it’s flying kind of thing. And that works as long as the desire is there and it’s strong enough, right? So that is okay for people who don’t like to do a lot of planning and foundational work, you’ll have to do it anyways. It’d be you have to be at backtrack.
So many times have we all backtracked, right?
For sure, I am more of a do and then I’ll think it through after myself. But it’s driven by desire. So I think if I’m here, if I hear your, your face would be is just make sure that your desire is strong enough so that you can create the success that you’re looking.
Yeah, and, and really have a vision process, you know, have a vision board, whatever works for you. But your entire organization is powered by that vision. So if you’ve launched before you have a vision and that vision isn’t strong enough. And you have to have clarity of vision, right? It’s not good enough, because people are coming around you. And you have to be able to sell that vision as the leader, you need to be able to explain it. And so if it’s real murky for you, then you’ve launched too early, right? You’ve got to be crystal clear, so powerful, so encompassing, that people are swept up in that vision. And that clarity of purpose, I think is really important. And then to maintain it, you want to think about daily reflection, maybe monthly, and certainly yearly to step back and say, where am I going? What is my vision? Is it clear? Am I making it clear to others and ask them? What do you think my vision is? And oftentimes, you’ll hear it might be a little bit different than you think, Well, how do I tune it up so much that you match exactly where I’m going?
I like the transition that this is going to because it’s kind of around one of your other mistakes that you mentioned, which is surrounding yourself with the wrong people. And I think you attract the wrong kind of people and you’re not exuding that. clarity of vision to others because the message is clear enough, it’ll draw the right people to you. What? So what happens if someone has found themselves in surrounding themselves or having people around them that don’t quite help achieve the long term vision? How do you what do you suggest people do?
Get rid of them?
You know, what’s funny? Is it kidding aside is we all collect people. We all can learn from everyone. There’s a lesson from everyone. That’s what I learned. I learned from somebody who had been recently homeless, I can learn from everyone, but the core people you’re around, are taking you in a direction. Right? Les Brown always says run around with nine losers, and pretty soon you’ll be the 10th loser. And yet we don’t often cognitively and strictly teach and deliberately think about who we’re around. We just let it happen to us. Now, we would never let business results just happen to us, we would never let a product just wither and just be ignored. We wouldn’t put a product on the shelf and not care what was around it. And yet, we seem to take less care about who we’re around, right hold Munstead did a study and they said that the people were around can influence our happiness in a value of up to $100,000 a year extra. That’s how important elite, so powerful, so, so who were around is so important. In fact, even going back to the diet and exercise thing, if your best friend in another town is gaining weight to study say that you are and vice versa, who were around is such a powerful effect. So we have to be careful around it. Now, you could say, well, you know, I’m around negative relatives. And I, what am I gonna do? Well, you can spend a little less time with Uncle Joe at Thanksgiving, right? I mean, you can make a choice around how much time and what your investment is. People are in I always think you should lift everyone up, I don’t think you should leave anyone behind. I don’t think that you should ignore someone. I think that, you know, part of my mission is speaking into people and helping them I want to help people aim higher raise up their lives. And yet, I’m very aware if there’s somebody who’s draining me, and all of a strain somebody, I, you know, we always like, go on, I give up. I’m gonna drain somebody else, and they’re gonna be like, I can’t take him, right. So
Find the right mix of people that give you that energy and give you that drive. Because if not, you just can’t do it for very long. Your energy needs to be protected like an asset. People are adding to it or taking away from it. And if they’re draining you over and over and over, you need to start to wean them away. You need to maybe deal with them in a group setting. Instead of spending individual time you maybe need to have a supervisor that can work with that person. You may be need to look at strategies that can reduce your time with them. Because otherwise, you’re going to have no time left for the people that matter, right? The 2080 rule and my 80% with the 20% that matter? And so, yeah, surrounding yourself with the right people, even customers, right? Whoever it is, how can I get people that will inspire me and energize me and challenge me, right? Not always just positive, but it might be pushing me. It might be uncomfortable, I might want to be around them because they’re making me uncomfortable, but it’s growth.
So yeah, the right people such a huge part of success is a core component in the coaching I do. And then I also run roundtable forums that work as a cohort together for a year so set you know, creed co curating those, so it’s the right energy for the group. And sometimes, however, we don’t have access to either of those types of things. And so I’m a big proponent of finding the books that I enjoy and or listening to podcasts that bring that energy and it’s giving surrounding yourself with the thought.
Oh, me too. I’m with you on that because it can be virtual right? It doesn’t have to be. Yeah, people that’s around me that are long gone.
You’re not here, right? But they’re still surrounding me. And in that drive home, they can lift me up in a way that wouldn’t have worked if, if I had listened to out another newscast.
Friends, um, who are your three favorites? Dead or Alive? leaders that you’d like to follow or read? I always like to kind of
? I always like to kind of you know, it’s hard for me to say favorites because I have so many I’m sure like you do. You know, God I mentioned Jim Rohn, Zig Ziglar was another big one. Today I have so many friends, Michael Hyatt and Scott McCain and Mark Sanborn people from the Speakers roundtable calm, which I’m a member of are some of the most inspiring people that I know. And so yeah, the speakers roundtable is an association that I’ve I work with because they lift me up. I learn from them, and we challenge each other in a unique way.
Outstanding. Thank you, you shared generously I’ve with a couple of names. And I, I would concur. There’s one or two, I don’t know. So I’ll go check them out. And one of the other mistakes that you talk about is people staying inside of their comfort zone. And so I spent a lot of time coaching on this, I’d love another perspective on this, to kind of find a new way to really how can we challenge our leaders to push themselves outside their comfort zone and when it’s safe to do so and to recognize when it’s not, I guess.
When it’s safe to not be out of your comfort zone to lean into it or when to not lean into it.
Yeah, it’s so individualized, and oftentimes we have to figure out what people individually fear. What’s making it hard to step through it. Is that logical? Is it emotional? Is it historical? Is it something, you know, working with these, these people we took in, you know, a lot of times it was painful childhood issues. I mean, there can be a lot of reasons, right? It might be a business issue might be that somebody just annoys them. I mean, it could be funny, you know, I had one, one woman who was fantastic, but she didn’t want to go to one side of the building. And it was really because that the refrigerator smelled in it. She had this thing where it just drove. I mean, you never know what people what’s holding people back and I think, I think we all have to recognize what that is. We want to stay in our comfort zone. It’s comfortable and yet we want to grow. We have to choose carefully. And you can’t do all things at all times. You got to choose which area do I want to be under comfortable in and lean into. And, you know, depending on my goals, right, it might be like I’m uncomfortable writing, and then I’m just going to discipline myself to write or it might be, I’m uncomfortable speaking, but I’m going to force myself to sign up three times. It might be, I’m uncomfortable having difficult conversations, direct conversations with people, and just taking on the issue to confront them over a behavior or the way they made me feel, I need to practice that and lean into that, because if I don’t, I’m not going to get better. And so I have to identify what are those areas at the beginning of the year? And where do I want to lean in and not to do too many of them because if you do too many of them, you’re doing none of them. And, and then practice and really do them over and over and over. Oftentimes, they know, you know, what’s the one thing holding you back and you find in there a nugget of the area that they’re most uncomfortable with, and that’s where you want to lean in and I want to say tell me more about that. and dig into it and why and what does that mean? And how does it make you feel? And how do we fix it?
I find often so many people know, right, they know.
And they just want help on the on the journey through and if they have the right people around them, they can do it.
We just had a long conversation in one of my forums talking about the difference between being in your comfort zone being perceived as being complacent. And versus, you know, a mindset of scaling and expansion and growth, or is it just gratitude for what you have and trying to balance out? So I think, if I were to take apply, what you just said is that it’s not necessarily a comfort zone, if it fits in the terms of what it is that you weren’t looking for in your life, and you’re continuing to grow.
Yeah, it’s true. I like to say that success means that you have an equal amount of gratitude for where you are with desire for where you want to go. And you don’t want to lose each of those. If you have no desire to go anywhere, then you know, you’re just happy on the beach. There are many times like right now i’d really like that. So might be a bad example for me right now. But you don’t want to stay there. You want to move and get forward. So how do you balance those two things in your mind at the same time, gratitude, peace, being in joy with where you are and who you are and what you’re doing, and yet, still have that aspiration to grow and become, and even a Buddhist monk sitting somewhere can still Aspire. And so you want to keep learning and keep growing. And that balance I think is important same in business where you can say, I’m delighted, thrilled with where we are and what we’ve accomplished. And yet I still don’t want to make next year’s numbers less than this year’s numbers I want to aspire to, to more.
I like your definition of success. I think that’s going to be my quote, takeaway so far from the podcast, the balance of gratitude with desire. Yeah, that’s awesome. Let’s talk about trying to blend in instead of standing out that is also one of the mistakes that you highlight in the book. And I would just love for you to explain what you mean by that. And, um, I, I guess I’ll position it in. I think we’re taught as a society to blend in. Oh, yes. Um, it’s beaten into us from elementary school all the way up. And so how do you recognize when you need it to stake your claim or plant your flag or you know, stamp your brand like I don’t. And how do you do that? How do you encourage leaders?
Standing out is as simple as consistently outperforming expectations doesn’t have to be bizarre. Doesn’t have to be huge. standing out, it’s as simple as consistently outperforming your expectations and whatever the expectation is, if you do a little better than that, you’re going to stand out you’re not going to blend in if you go to a restaurant and it’s just a little better than the others. It’s just consistently there’s something that they added, you’re going to go I want to go back there, right they remembered my name there. They knew my what I was going to order they remembered something it’s that little bit that makes a huge difference. But we do learn to blend in we’re forced early on to know that you know everyone should comply with this everyone should just, you know fit in we we want to be with our people. And we don’t want to stand out. And yet greatness always stands out.
Yes, it does. It always does.
The people that just blend in, right and then there’s somebody that there’s something about that person, they fire out right and their business gets noticed, they get noticed. Now, if it’s too much, then it’s seen as obnoxious, weird. It may not be seen in a positive way. So you have to watch where you are. But if you’re just blending into the wall, that’s not success either. So, you know, I learned this example in a powerful little festival here in Central Ohio. There’s a little town I think it’s called a thoughtless they had this honey festival. I’d never been to a honey festival. I didn’t know what it was. I thought we’re going to see honey. And I thought, well, how boring can this be honey? It’s a commodity, honey, right? We go to this topless honey festival and you wouldn’t believe It Allison, I mean, everybody was standing out like there was somebody who, you know, she had the bees all over her dress with a crown, there was a bee beard guy there was there was products of bee candles and there was be mixed with things that would help you with allergies or with aches and pains. And there was dark honey and there was chocolate, honey, I mean it, it went on and on the way and I was fascinated by this because I thought this is an exercise of standing out. Like if you gave a group of business students and said, You know, we’re doing honey, now you got to stand out. You could have dreamed up this diverse set. I mean, people had entertainment booths, where people would be drawn and people had products that were as different as you can imagine, and nobody seemed the same.
And I started thinking, what are you going to do for a couple hours eating honey, and I soon learned but it was that simple thing and I thought what if we all worked individually and as businesses To stand out in that same way, and it’s a question we don’t always ask, but how are we going to stand out? If I’m going to speak somewhere? How am I going to be remembered? If I’m going to make an impact on somebody? Why is my piece of advice going to stick versus someone else’s? It’s those little things. It doesn’t have to be much, right, but just a little bit, all of a sudden, people go, I want to know more about that. And so our businesses and the things that we do also need to stand out but it’s not huge. It’s just consistently outperforming expectations just a little bit. Not huge, just a little bit. Makes a huge difference.
Do you have a signature, something that you use as your standout stamp? You know, the thing that people go, oh, skip, he’s the…
You tell me? See, I’ll tell you one thing that you shouldn’t do. Don’t write a book about mistakes and do the mistake guy because you know, I’m like, Oh, no. He remembers me as the mistake guy, but it is true. And, and I’m happy to do it. But yeah, you know, for me, I wear many different hats. So it depends on where I am. It can be publishing, it can be in the library world, certainly in the speaking world, they think of mistakes. And that’s the way it is. So I certainly have made them I’m happy to be the mistake guy you can learn from mine. And hopefully, you will make less of them than I have.
And I’ve, I’ve read your book twice. And in reading it, I’ll admit that I do think if you mistake guy so if you if you’d pivoted off of that, and I’m so optimistic and positive minded that I’m like, it’s not mistakes, it’s learnings. It’s like I always want to like fix it.
It’s true that the publisher had fun with that too, because they were like, I don’t think we should call it mistakes, you know, but I wrote a thing for Writer’s Digest as the publishing executive who finally wrote a book and broke all the publishing rules. One of the major rules as you never want a negative word in the title. And so I said, well, we’re gonna break that rule.
That’s been proven wrong repeatedly recently.
It has been That’s true. In many ways. Yeah.
Yeah. But I would agree like my gut, my instinct is automatically Oh, that’s negative. So that’s right, me to sharing the learnings from them. So it’s okay. Um, I would like to cover one more mistake in our time. So your mistake and number eight is thinking that there’s a fixed and limited amount of time of success, limited amount of success available? Um, kind of the lack of abundance, right? There’s not enough clients. There’s not enough money. There’s no like I’m taking from you.
When is that true?
Well, Carol Dweck at Stanford University, had an initial study on the fixed versus growth mindset. And she found out there were two people and it could be with anything either Even intelligence where people think it’s fixed and other people think it isn’t. And the study that she did show that if you believe intelligence is expanding, and that you can grow it and learn that it will. And if you think it’s fixed, it won’t. your mindset, in other words has such a huge impact on the results. So it works nearly all of the time to think I want to have a growth mindset. So there are times when you need people with a scarcity mindset because it helps you it can help you protect against risk. It can help you look at the negative, it can help you look at things. But there are other times you need the abundance mindset where you need to be open ended and looking at positivity and looking at the world. You need a blend of things. That’s the magic of the whole world, we need each other. The key is you need the right people at the right time. Right. So oftentimes what we do is we bring somebody in with the fixed mindset or with a scarcity mentality too early in the ideation process. So what happens is As we just started the idea, it hasn’t taken root. There’s no there’s no, the seed hasn’t even gone through the soil and boat, we stamp it out with the person who has no right. So what we want to do is say, look, we want to, we want to listen to you, we want your ideas, we want you to weigh in on the risks and the problems you see and the negative side. And we want you to talk about what you see that could damage the plant, but not now. Once you to hold those thoughts, and if they come out in a meeting, right?
I appreciate that. But we’re going to we’re going to hold those thoughts for now. So that the team has time to really just throw out ideas to not kill anything to just put it out there. So the question is timing. Now, if you don’t ever listen to those people, you’re going to find you’re going to make some big mistakes because you are then going to miss things or take risks that are completely unnecessary and so on. Being very cognizant of that of the timing and the mix. And the people I think, is is very, very important, but that growth mindsets great. I mean, you know, famous examples, Jeff Bezos, right? He, you could look at the book world, he started in books. But he had this growth mindset and the whole world was part of the growth. So you can have that growth mindset or not, but you want to have the balance of the team, and you tend to want you’re in certainly like legal counsel and things they want to rein you in, right, they want to give you advice. And sometimes that’s great advice. Sometimes you have to, you have to say I’m going to overrule it and take a business risk, but you want to bring it all those voices to the table. And it’s a mix, I think of all of them.
I think you bring a great point, we use an assessment tool. And you know, I can you know, typically looking at a team figure out who to tap into at what phase of work when you have someone who has more of a scarcity mindset, at the maybe even just having seeds in your hands, you don’t even have them in the soil yet. How do you remove them from the process so that it can at least get to the soil and see if it’s something that can grow before it does get stopped out? Like what would be your suggestion for a client who has someone like that? Maybe even their partnership?
Allison are speaking hypothetically, hypothetically, you know, there are times that you actually do remove the person from the process. And you say, I’m not going to have you in here right now. One of the things for me is I’m very upfront and very direct. And I sit down with a person and say, Look, here’s your skillset. Here’s what you’re really good at. This is your magic sauce. This is what you bring to the team that we need. But if you bring it in here, it’s it’s not going to be helpful. It’s people are going to see you as negative. Have you ever had anybody say these things about you? And they’re like, Yeah, but I’m only trying to help Of course you are. We’re gonna We’re not going to, I don’t want you to think you’re being excluded, because you’re not like your magic comes later. And you ask them, or you might just tell them participate, but we, this is what we’re looking for. And so if you’re additive, if you’re positive, you know, do this, keep those things, write them down. We don’t want to lose them. I think people just want to be valued for the work for what they have. And yet that process is so important to protect so that that innovation cycle, you really just want to just let it fly a little bit before you before you crush the babies too much of you know, that little plant was just starting.
And we can all do it. Now, by the way, the danger of thinking you can just find, you know, one person and say, well, it’s gem over here is that all of us have both mindsets at all times depending on when and what and how. So I think it’s important in facilitating and leading these things to some time. say all of this upfront, we’re going to be doing this right, we’re going to be iterating, we’re going to be throwing out ideas, we’re going to be positive, we’re going to these, these are the rules, anything we can add me out. If you see somebody not doing that, or has something, we’re going to put it over here and flag it, if you see it, including me, because I do it too, right? And so off, they’ll go and somebody will come along and say, Well, wait a minute. Right, your point to it, and then they will move back. And you’ll be able to let that let that idea go a little bit further. So that’s how I handle it. There’s a lot of people handle it a variety of different ways, but I’m pretty direct and I like people to know that we really do value that and people know if you’re genuine, there’s some teams. There’s some entrepreneur entrepreneurial teams that have no room for anybody who has anything like that. And, you know, they may do it at their peril, but they may want that time where they’re just you know, going On fire, and they don’t want to have a single thing holding them back. I understand that it’s just riskier. And it may be, it may be just fine. But it is a risk here.
And I appreciate your perspective on that. I think in all cases, I wish leaders were more direct about it as opposed to, you know, the eye roller right. At the meeting like I guess again, again. I do agree, um, I am just super curious. We’re kind of at the at the top of our time together and I just want to ask, it’s, we’re an interesting times what exciting things are you thinking about dreaming, scheming on anything that you’re rolling out this year that you’re willing to share with me? And you know, I feel listeners?
Well, we’re, you know, the company that I run OCLC does a lot for libraries around the world, and we’re busy helping libraries navigate through very difficult times of COVID-19 including helping to partner with our local global firm Battelle research that determines the viability of the virus on materials so they know when they can circulate them safely and helping libraries reopen. We’re also doing a lot with public libraries with a new system that will help people app so that you can pick up materials remotely. You know, we do all things libraries, a lot of people don’t know OCLC, but they know we power libraries behind the scenes and data and software. The world’s catalog of information is worldcat.org. Look up your favorite authors books, you’ll see what libraries they’re in around the world. We even own the Dewey Decimal System, which people are like whoa, that’s, that’s now I know that one, like encyclopedia right?
Sorry. Exactly. So we’re doing we’re doing a lot of good work and helping libraries help their communities they’re affecting communities around the world is so very important to us during a time of change when people may be needing new skills when people need to deal with racial discord and challenges. In that front door or job losses or anything, that’s a struggling people end up in their libraries and more people go to a library in the United States, for instance, then all of the major performances and sport events in a normal year. Of course, definitely now, but in a normal year, so it we, we try to do a lot of good work for libraries. That’s what I do. And then from my writing, and podcasting, and speaking side of my life, I’m always just trying to inspire and come up with ideas and help surround you and me with great people that will help take you to where you want to go instead of where you are.
Yeah, I love that. Thank you for the work that you’re doing in our world’s libraries, bringing information and education to everyone. So thank you very much. Let’s get I’ve truly appreciated our conversation today. What a pleasure. I do hope that you will stay in touch and just thank you so much.
Thank you so much. Glad to be here and I hope your listeners enjoy it and I love listening to your interview so I will continue to do so thanks, Allison.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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