Resilience is about energy management. By managing your energy more intentionally, you can avoid burnout and become more resilient to challenges.
In this interview, Eileen McDargh breaks down how to ask recalculating questions, how to create energy, and how to embrace imbalance in our lives.
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Welcome to Deliberate Leaders. I am your host Allison Dunn, executive coach, owner of Deliberate Directions and founder of Deliberate Leaders Podcast, where we focus on bringing you inspiring interviews to help you on your leadership journey. And today I’m super excited to introduce our guest. She is Eileen McDargh. She is the author of your resilience GPS. She is also the founder and CEO of the Resiliency Group, where she’s a keynote speaker. She’s a facilitator and also an executive coach. Her newest book, Burnout Tip Breakthrough will be published this coming August. I mean, welcome to Deliberate Leaders. We’re so happy to have you.
Thank you and I’m delighted we get to do this. This is all important stuff.
Fantastic and what good timing for it all once you agree.
I’m hoping that we can kick off this segment. It’s a little self serving for myself. But I have three questions that I’d like to ask you. And it’s part of a research project that I’m working on. So if that’s okay with you, are you good to move forward with that? Excellent.
Unknown Speaker 1:17
Go for it?
Unknown Speaker 1:18
I mean, what is your top leadership tip?
Well, let me put it this way. Everything is in context. without context. Everything’s meaningless. Given what is going on right now, and I’m assuming this is going to be playing within the next week or two. My top leadership while we are being presented with the physical distancing,with all of the anxiety and fear my top leadership tip right now is for leaders to become transparent, visible and vocal. When I say transparent, we are really looking for leaders who tell it like it is not who make up some kind of story. We want leaders who are honest with us. And I think one of the things that happens when we are faced with crisis is it rips away the mask, and it lets people know who you really are. So I would say as a leader, who are you really showing up so visible and vocal, now visible, you’re so wily, and I can’t, I can’t. We’re visible right now. And let me tell you, there’s something very intimate about being visible and the way in which we are visible, you’re beginning to see part of my natural world, you’re not seeing the office, you’re not seeing the ability awards that this whatever, we are now on a really intimate, intimate place. So being visible in this way, and vote me is willing to speak the truth. And also, when I say speak, I think we need to acknowledge each other for being where we are right now. And it’s also means that a leader knows how to express empathy, and gratitude. Gratitude is a big deal. And part of gratitude is the compassion that it takes for knowing you’re stay at home right now. And you got three kids running around screaming at you, or you can’t go out on the golf course. You know, you can certainly exercise as part of it. So I think that’s transparent, visible and vocal would be. So it’s not one tip, it’s really a combination.
Yeah, I love that. And I told you, I was gonna ask you three questions, but you answered all three of them very eloquently. You answered why is it important, especially right now? And then how do you implement it best by being transparent? That’s fantastic. I love that. Thank you.
So let’s talk about resiliency and your book, your resiliency, GPS, is that correct? Is the name of the book. Yes. Right.
That’s the current one. And if you PS DS, your growth potential strategy. And I wrote that tweet I guess about two years ago, I lost track.
But, yes, because I think your growth potential strategy, just like you have a GPS on your car, you can’t tell that Siri or whoever you want to talk to, to take you to Xyz unless Siri knows where you are right now. And so your growth potential strategy is where do you find yourself now? And then where is it that you choose to go? So that’s part of this whole this whole journey, this resiliency journey?
So, what would you say resilience means to you.
I have a very different notion of resiliency. I disagree with the dictionary definition. You were to pick up the dictionary definition. It would say something along the lines of and I will paraphrase, that an object when it is compressed under stress and the stress is gone. It goes back to its original position. So if I were to ask a group, if I were lecturing and I say, Tell me what resiliency means, without a doubt, they would say, bounce back. That’s great if you’re a willow tree, or if you’re a piece of steel, but for the human system, there’s no such thing as going back. To me, resilience is about growth. It’s about growing through challenge or opportunity, so that you end up wiser, smarter and or stronger as you go through if there’s no growth if you’re stuck or not being resilient. And notice I also said it’s opportunity, because I think at the end of the day, resiliency is basically about energy management. Do I have the mental emotional, physical hardiness, to keep on what gives me energy and that’s what I want to grow. I want to grow that energy dimension or what is depleting it. And when my energy is depleted, it’s very hard. I’m not being resilient. I’m shrinking. Looking back down. So you’ll see that’s quite different than what good old Webster told us. It was.
Yes, I like yours a lot. I would concur that it’s not just bounce back, it is you definitely don’t always return to the same state. You were in before, right?
You know, we never are for you think about this. There’s a saying you cannot enter the same river twice. Water has moved on. When I hear people saying, well, we’re going to go back to a new normal, I got news, the world is going to be constantly shifting. Our lives are going to be constantly changing. So this notion of resiliency isn’t a one time deal, like holy crap. Now what do I do? It’s something that I work on it on a daily basis, and there are days in our life in which we’re going to need more energy because of what’s going on. And other days in which, you know, it’s dental, but I begin to look at this as a life skill. Not a One time shot skill.
I would agree. And in your book and you offer recalculating questions, tell us what kind of revive and renew, to get hope and optimism back. And can you give us a couple of examples for my listeners of recalculating questions?
Yeah. Okay. So first off, obviously recalculating questions makes me sound like Siri, you know, when she goes to get a token, calculating your direction, you know, don’t pre calculated. So to be I have fun with it anyway, which by the way, laughter and fun is essential to being resilient. I think that’s one of the things we’re seeing right now, in the middle of this. This whole pandemic. We’re seeing some of the craziest things that make us laugh, because that is a resiliency skill. So recalculating questions basically, ask you to think again, about where you find yourself where You want to go so we can think of a recalculating question.
So let’s say that right now, you might be sitting at home and you’re in your quote, Home Office. And recalculating question would be as you go through what normally would be your daily routine, if you have a routine and by the way that right now, it’s very important to have a routine is that routine that allows us to feel kind of anchored. So one question would be, what you’re doing right now? Is it offering value to you to your organization if you’re working for it? And what would make it what would you shift that would add more value? The reason I asked this is that I think in my book coming out this summer up burnout to breakthrough. I wrote it because the World Health Organization last May declared burnout, a global occupational hazard. Well, all of this craziness that’s going on now all of a sudden, we have a space. And I think in this space, we actually have an opportunity to recalculate. What when I was back there, what was I doing? What am I doing now? And does it add value? There are so much that goes on in our organizations in our lives, that doesn’t have value, but it’s because it’s well, the way we’ve always done it. Well, of course, I, of course, I always wrote a 30 page report every month.
Well, why? And who reads it?
By the way, I found that out in one organization, this person spent all this time doing all this stuff. And then I said, who reads it?
And they couldn’t figure out anybody even read it.
So your energy is consumed doing something that you don’t need to do? So a potential recalculating question would be exactly that. What am I doing? Why am I doing does it evaluate at the end of the day to me or whomever? If perchance I’m still employed, do I’m supposed to add value? And if I’m going to recalculate?
How would I shift? Where would I go?
What would I do?
I would imagine more so than ever. We’ve had a lot of breakthroughs through this transition and figuring out maybe what we don’t need to do any longer. And what we could do better is going to be, I think, a very innovative time for our world.
Or it’s, you know, I agree with you. It’s, it’s actually an emerging initiative. And when I say emerging, let me see, let me give you an example of emerging it’s where you think you’re going along in one pattern, and then something new comes in and it changes your thinking, and you go, oh, what’s emerging now. For example, the makers of the cold medicine that we call now NyQuil initially started out just as a regular cold medicine. And what they discovered was it put people to sleep. So put people to sleep. They said, You know what? This isn’t, this isn’t new emerging thing. Why don’t we call it NyQuil and it will let you sleep through the night. So they took what was this is the way we’re normally going. This is what we said our drug is supposed to do, or medicine supposed to do. And then all of a sudden something shifts. So I think you’re quite right, is that we’re going to see some significant shifts of how we work of the way we work, where we work. And, and if we’re really smart, we’ll find ourselves in a better place but it will take time.
To do you think resiliency is a skill you can build?
Great question because Some people say, well, it’s genetic. So I chose Brazilian he was born that. But we know that about 20 years worth of research that says there are some people who appear to be more resilient than others. And what it is, is that the the synapses in their brain that that begins to create patterns goes faster, so they can find alternative ways of responding and they do it quicker. But we now know, in the area brain research, this thing called neuroplasticity, where we didn’t stop learning at age four, and that was the end. Our brains are constantly making new patterns. So when you think of this as a skill, what are new patterns that I can begin situation? And when I begin to tap into that, I’m creating, I’m building that resiliency model I actually like the idea of muscle. Because if you think about it, when you go to the gym for the first time, you’re not going to be standing over there lifting up 50 pound weights, you know, you might start with five pounds, and then you build up and maybe it’s 10. Maybe it’s 15. Well, resiliency is something that we work on. And so you realize that very deliberately, I have to practice this. And let me give you one very powerful way, I think, to begin to retrain our brain to be resilient, and it’s to listen to the language we use.
Language is incredibly important.
That’s why when somebody says, This person is an alien versus this person is a migrant, those are two different words. Mark Twain said the difference between the right word or the wrong word was the distance difference between lightning and lightning bug. So here’s the word that I had. This is one for myself that I have We teach what we need to learn. It’s to substitute the word shows to, for half to say, think about this, you didn’t have to do this podcast, you have chosen to do this podcast. I didn’t have to be honest, I chose to do it.
Well, as soon as I say I choose, that means I’m in command, I am choosing to be physically distance. I am choosing to wear a mask when I go out. I am choosing not to go out a lot, which means there are people who are on choosing it. I’m not sure that’s wise. But in any event, if I say I choose to do this, that means I’m also responsible for those choices, because I’ve made them.
I often use the word versus have to I get to be a bit but there is a really interesting element about choosing it. So Get to his choice. But it’s actually like have multiple things. This is the one I’ve chosen. So I like that I love. I love that little shift in my thinking with that statement.
It’s a way I got this clearly when my youngest daughter was going out to babysit for the first time. And she’s walking out the door and she says, oh, to go babysit. I said, No, no, you’re choosing to go babysit. No, I have to go. I told them I would. I said, Oh, you are choosing to keep your promise. Well, well, I want the money. Oh, so you’re choosing to Well, there’s this. You can tell Oh, this was there’s a CD I want. This is back before you had that. You know, you’d go to the app and download something from iTunes. And so you can hear that semantic battle back and forth. About a week or so later. We’re at the dining room table and I said oh, I have to go to New York on Friday. No, you know, mom calling cancel your choosing to. She got me, kids a kid pianist. She got me She got me. She was right. I was I was.
I love it. That’s fantastic.
When we look at kind of building that resilience, right, that’s the idea of choosing and what can leaders do? Or is there anything leaders can do to help build resiliency in their teams?
That’s another good question.
Okay, the first resiliency skill to me is always adaptability, finding multiple ways to respond to any given situation. So I think the for a leader, whatever is the event, the product, the service, whatever you’re going to put out, is to invite in the collective the team to say, how many ways might we do this differently? What would give us greatest value here and what oftentimes, team members might be afraid to speak up because it’s a legacy system. It’s something, you know, it’s near and dear to this leaders heart and we dare not say, you know, this is not a good idea at all. So back again, I’m going to be transparent, verbal and visual. And I think to invite multitude pieces of input to allow people to feel that they were heard, and who knows to come up with a different way of doing things. What you’ve done is you’ve created a pattern. The other thing I think, that leaders can do is to express intelligent optimism. Intelligent optimism is where you take what’s going on. And you reframe it in another way that says,
What’s possible, versus what’s impossible. So what’s one of the best examples to me because it was just so powerful was Apollo 13.
And, and I’m sure many people have at least seen the movie of Apollo 13, which is where they could not get the spaceship back. Anything that could go wrong was gone wrong. I’m more disaster happened to that spaceship. And Gene Kranz who was the head of Mission Control in Houston, the engineers are coming in Super trying this or trying this. I think Finally, there’s nothing else there’s, there’s nothing else we can do. We’re never going to get them back. And gene Krantz looked at them and said, and this might be our finest hour, we’re going to try something different. And by refocusing them by reframing it instead of saying horrible, terrible, this could be our finest hour.
So I think that’s another role of a leader is to reframe I’m really thinking that when it’s an article I think I’d like to write is the the upside of the downside. Because I think now we’re again, like you and I said, we’ve got some possibilities here is we can look at this instead of going back to the way we’ve always done it, we’re gonna go back, how do we go forward?
Make sense? That makes perfect sense. Yeah. And those are fantastic examples scenarios, to build that resilience and being open, you know, especially as a leader stepping forward and saying, It’s not my legacy project, I want you to improve and making that your team members.
Can we talk a moment about multitasking? So you say that multitasking is ineffective. And I 100% agree with you. And I know that research supports that. We need to train ourselves to do that. So that we can break that tendency?
All right? Well, there’s a couple very practical things, for example, you stop that little ding that tells you you’ve got email, which, unfortunately I didn’t do. I mean, you might pick that up with the I apologize for faster, I’m not paying any attention to at all, I should have cut that thing off. So because what that does, is when our attention is, goes someplace else, it takes us long to get back. And I can be very much single single minded focused on you, but we’re detecting, create a create a space for yourself, a space that is as sacred as going into a church.
And so for example, if I’m working on a project, I might, I might say, I am not to be interrupted the next 20 minutes period, in a sense. If you were in an office, you could probably put busy don’t bother me, and you literally can create that space. Sometimes just a fun way, but I know one mother who said that when she tells her children when I come home from work, do not talk to me until I’ve had a shower.
She created a space for herself because she knew that if she could get that shower, okay, anything that happened today and then I can wash over and press one. Yeah, yeah, if I can wash it away. So the thmultitasking we really do to ourselves and we allow other people to do that too. You know, we let people intrude on that space. And there might be times in which it’s, you know, it’s an emergency you need to do that. But to be that single minded focus. Cal Newport, who is a professor at Georgetown, has written a wonderful book called Digital minimalism. And it’s really all about how do we get rid of all the digital stuff that pulls to us and what we have is what he calls deep focus. And deep focus is where you carve out that time. And it is the single one thing that you work on. Whether it’s the project, the thing you’re trying to build whatever it is, this is your single focus. And part of it is to get rid of and what he says is on your phone, get rid of all the social media on your phone, because you’re going to end up looking at it. And when you end up looking at it, guess what you just got pulled away from what it was that you wanted to run.
I think that deep focus is a it’s just so hard to achieve inside of an office. And I’ve found now that I am working from home that I can get into really deep focus. And I do think that that is going to be one of the interesting outcomes of the time that we’re in, interestingly enough.
I said something to somebody the other day we were having a conversation via LinkedIn, and I said, You know, I am busy, you’re being busy I am. So there’s so much now that I can do when I’m not intruded. So here’s the article that I’m going to write. Now. Here’s my thing is I’ve got to stay focused on that on that article. But it is it is fascinating by creating this almost a sacred space.
What you can get what you can get done in that. Can we talk a little bit about the book that you have coming out?
So it’s so do out in August? Correct?
Right, August 4, last August. It’s already available on Amazon you get Yeah, you can go get the pre publication order it now. I love Love, Love it. Love it if you would, and it’s the name. It’s Burnout, to break through building resilience skills to recharge, refuel and reclaim with matter.
Fabulous, that’s a great title and just For listeners don’t want to lose you yet all of the link to the Amazon pre buy will be in the link in the bottom of the podcast. So to do that upgrade, what do you think? I think managers have some, I’m sorry. Do you think managers have some control over whether their employees burn out? meaning is that something they can control?
Well, let me put it this way. I think that the volume that we pass along to people, oftentimes, because particularly the very competent, we just give them more and more and more. And because we’re competent, we don’t want to say well, what Wait, whoa, whoa, dang. Oh, timeout. This is like wait too much. And so I really think there is an obligation for leaders to look at what is that? What is the volume I’m asking people to do? And by the way, oftentimes, we do not know what it really takes to do that. Well, because we don’t we don’t know the amount of energy That, to get that. And on the flip side, I also think that it’s as the as the worker as the team member. I also have an obligation to say, you’ve asked me to do these three things. Which one do you want done first? And what exactly is this supposed to you ask? You’re actually asking the leader who’s given it to you give me some of these boundaries? And if they say, No, you have to do all of that all at once. So, you know, I remember going into a restaurant and said, Good food takes time to prepare. Yours will be ready in a minute.
But that’s really all we’re saying. You want me to do it that fast. Here’s a quality thing.
I think the amount of meetings that people go oh my god, useless meetings, useless meetings. So you ask yourself why, why do I call this and I have a dear friend, Bill Jensen. Marvelous guy. Go get me a bill. Just Since book j and, you know, he says that you really asked, you know, who needs to be there? What do you want as an outcome? If you go to meeting who needs to be there? What do you want as an outcome? And what am I supposed to do at the end of this meeting? If you can’t answer those three questions, then you’re having a useless meeting. And many of us have said in meetings where you sat there and thought, I hear you could have given me a summary of this and three bullet points instead of and let me work on other things. So you really ask yourself, why do you even call those meetings? The same thing is true of email. Oh my gosh, email. And I’m sure you’ve been the recipient where it says this, this is like, it’s like a roll of toilet paper. It goes on and on and on. Remember, I remember on my body timing it, he would have picked up the phone, we could have done this in 10 minutes. Instead of having all these different, though. I got to read what the train is what goes over here. Stop it. Just because that contributes also the overwork or now, any day, I would rather sit in a meeting where I’m not sure what the outcome is then to read an email string, everyone’s input with no outcome.
I’m more of a an in person person. So like, I take it back every day over an email with you. And so I’ve seen that now is that, particularly because we’re not in the same space? Like, it’s nice, this is ridiculous. I pick up my phone. Let’s talk about this because we can take care of this instead of wasting time wasting energy.
When I could have said, Let’s talk, for sure.
I just picked up on a word you said and that leads to the next question. So what are some of the things that managers and do that cause team members to lose energy?
When a manager belittles people, unfortunately, we’re seeing that a lot right now. Or someone who is in the leadership position domains, talks down to bullies people. That is inappropriate behavior. And you wonder why the world you even hang on until such time as you can figure out a way to get out of you. I think part of the way in which managers contribute to that is how they treat people with in less than a respectful manner. I mean, I think everybody deserves respect. So I think that’s really, that’s really one of the things I think also not acknowledging people for the effort that they’re putting out. And there are some real there’s a real specific ways of acknowledging people’s effort. Not just saying good job is telling someone why it was a good job.
And I began to tell you why it’s a good job with what you’ve done. Like when I acknowledge you for, you know, sending, you know, sending me the notices that I needed, and you follow up with her with another phone call. And then we want to make sure that I’ve got the right date, we can talk about that those three things were incredibly, incredibly important, and, and helpful. And I really, I really appreciate that house and that you went to that kind of that level of attention to make sure that we were on the call at the same time.
So I want to say thank you. You’re welcome.
Because I could have just said, Good job, but you don’t know what makes it a good job.
Right? Tell you specifically. Because now you know that I know. And also what is your guest?
Super helpful, I think in thinking Just one more step is I think it totally goes both ways. Right? I think that we don’t tell the people who support us in that research, what they do well and exactly specifically what it is about it and I know that the leaders that I coach crave that too. They’re like, Am I doing okay? What is it that uh, you know, I’m doing a TOEFL and so for any listener out there, it’s a it’s a two way conversation and I think the more you get about how someone helps you and have them really understand that that’s so powerful and appreciate them.
I love that I love that you said it goes both ways.
And you know, it’s not just in in work. I mean, think about this, if you’re if you are in a if you are in a love relationship. I know. You know,
I am very blessed that we will be married 40 years,
Which I think is incredible because there’s only two relations, about output. But I became really aware of Somebody said something that we constantly acknowledge each other for what someone did. I mean, we don’t take it for granted that, you know, he made, he made dinner any. And he arranged he put a flower out of the garden and stuck it on the plate, and I get to sit well with it. Or when I do something and it says, Oh, I love that. Thank you very much. So it’s the please and the thank you and the acknowledgement of the effort that each one of us takes. And I, I began to realize that that’s not all that common in a relationship, a love relationship.
So we can take all these things that we apply on a professional level?
We can also apply on a personal level, for sure.
Bring it right home where it’s most important, right?
I do. I do a lot of coaching and development on the idea of engagement. And I think engagement and energy, in my opinion are often very synonymous. together and the financial impacts that organizations really suffer from having low energy and low engagement is dramatic. In your research, do you have any metrics that you go by we have a few that I kind of like always target. But is there I’m just I was wondering if my data is accurate to what you think is well, you know, I can’t pull something out of my hand, right? So they don’t see that’s, that would all sit in a file that I would go and pull out and look at but let me say something about this notion of engagement and energy.
So because I think it’s engagement, if you engage a motor, you turn a key, spark flies goes to the battery. If it’s a good connection, the battery goes and the car moves forward. You engage the motor with a good connection. If it is a bad connection, the battery is drained, there’s no energy and the car goes nowhere.
So in order to have an engaged workforce, what you really want to look at is what
Are the connections that I am making? And are they good connections? Or do they drain people’s energy? And that’s what engagement is. I remember years ago, giving some kind of presentation someplace and, and I, and it was about engagement. And I knelt down and I looked at the group and I said, Will you marry me? And they laughed, and most, most of them said, Yes, but a couple said no. I said, that’s the whole point. And engagement is an invitation. It says Will you to which some people will say yes, and some people will say no. So in that engagement, I want to figure out what is it that I can set up in advance That ups the chances. So when I create that connection, someone says, but of course they’ll marry.
That’s a good, that’s a great example.
And the marriage thing like I get that, like, you wouldn’t just randomly ask someone and not have like a heart to heart connection to marry. Oh, you want to stay with me for the rest of your life? No, I don’t even know you. Who are you? Which, again, are you know what the communication is? How is it that we’re connected? Who are you and who am I? And where is it that we can support each other and grow?
And in your book, you talk about four ways that we create and exhaust energy.
So I was hoping that you could share with us what those are Jimmy Mita do what I’m asking about the four skills adaptability. Okay. All right.
Well, I do a lot of things with numbers. So to me, these are forces skills that over time can be developed. adaptability is the big one. And this is, as we talked about earlier is where do I find multiple ways of responding to a given situation? It also talks about to be adaptable. It means I’m thinking about what my head say. So if I keep saying I have to I have to that I’m not adaptable. I choose to. When I get into negativity, I’m not being adaptable. I’m just stuck and rigid. When I get into pessimism, anxiety, I’m not being adaptable. The other way to be adaptable is not only do I listen to what I say, I make that connection. But how well Am I seeking the connections of other people so that I can see what you see what you see, you’ll see things that I won’t see. And I can learn from that. So adaptability is the first skill. agility, to me is speed coupled with action. It’s one thing to think about being resilient. It’s another thing to do it This is a phrase I created a long time ago quote me on it, because I will believe it to my dying day. Action is the anecdote for anxiety.
Hundred percent. If I can put something into action, even small, then I begin to feel the energy comes back. So agility is speed coupled with wisdom, what are the actions I can put that will give me energy back. So from a personal level, they are things like, exercise might sound really weird, but critically important sleep oh my god was sleep. What’s interesting is now that we are in this, this kind of quarantined environment. I’m sleeping more than I ever have. I set the routine so that I actually go to bed at 830 and up by five. So I can go out and run because I can run where I am right now. It’s wide open, there’s nobody there. And then meditation. So that’s the so what are the actions That you will take. And in times like this, I think another action is to set small goals small, not just small.
What is one thing that you did it today you go, huh? There was a good day.
wWo is that I’m going to reach out to who I know just, you know they’re by themselves. It’s might be a senior that’s in assisted living whatever What’s something I can do there? So actually so adaptability, agility, laugh ability. As I mentioned before, this is laughter is the shortest distance between two people. If I can get someone to laugh it, you can feel the energy.
You can feel the energy effect there was I don’t know what they still do it at Disney World. in Orlando, one of the Little Theater shows that they had it was with puppets and whatever and it was all about a city. And the the character that was in it was really wonderful and funny and people were laughing and what they were saying was that there was some evil source. It was trying to drain the The electricity out of a city and how are we going to get electricity? And the character said, laughter will give us the energy. And I love that because the more the audience laughed, the light came up in the theater. And I think you know, that’s really true. Laughter really, laughter really does this. And so we have adaptability, agility, laugh ability, and then alignment is, am I lined up with that, which is meaningful to me. It’s the notion of purpose.
And I believe, now more than ever, we’re looking at ourselves and saying, what’s really meaningful to me? How do I make a contribution? I’m hearing the word contribution as more and more people want to know that what I do matters and if I disappeared from Earth tomorrow Somewhere along the line might be small. But I felt like I’ve made a contribution. And so in our work, we’re looking at now what’s the larger purpose of my work? So we’re hearing more and more about a three part result, its profit, people who are there and the planet. You know, it’s not just enough to have profit. What do I do with the people? What’s my contribution to the environment to the planet, to the community in which I live? And we’re seeing actually some marvelous examples of companies that are that are moving ahead. They’re making a statement about here’s, here’s the contribution I’m going to make to buy the PP that the personal equipment to keep the first responders safe. Here’s another commitment of more money that was given over here where people are in organizations are saying, Yeah, this take care of this.
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