About Chris Russell
Chris is the “the mad scientist of online recruiting” His firm was founded in 2015. The mad scientist badge is one Chris wears with pride due to his continuous experimentation in the online recruiting space. From new job boards to recruiting apps to popular podcasts, the art of bringing together employer and job seeker is a constant thought inside his head.
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Good afternoon. My name is Alison Dunn and I am your executive business coach. I am here today with Chris Russell. He is the CO Founder and Managing Director of a Rec Tech Media. Welcome, Chris. Thank you for joining us.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, absolutely. So tell us a little bit about you. And I’m kind of where your career has taken you to this point.
Yeah, sure. So I think I have a pretty unique career path under my belt. I’ve been in the call the online recruiting space for about 20 years now. Like this is my 20th year in the industry. And I started out running my own job board company, which I started back in 1999. Back during the.com boom days as of yesterday, and I ran a call county jobs as a small network. have local county sites for the Northeast. So where I live here in Fairfield County, Connecticut is where I started it. So I launched Fairfield County jobs calm after having done some work in web design area. And I started at coded up in the summer one night and after work and launched it at some friends of HR, they signed on right away and kind of get the rest of history. So I built that into a 20 site network over the years focusing in different counties in the area. And after about 13 years, I sold it to one of my clients and HR company who ended up buying it. And thank you from there. You know, I learned a lot along the way about just marketing jobs online and attracting talent online and things like that, you know, running a job or do you really pick up a lot of tips and tactics around how to how to do these things, started doing some writing around recruiting and all this good stuff and after I sold a company dabbled in a few more career startups ended up being a recruiter as well for a couple of companies here in Connecticut, and in the last four years have been spent doing a lot of writing, podcasting, blogging and consulting for employers around their digital recruiting strategies overall. So it’s kind of where I am today.
Wow, that’s fantastic. I’m, I’m a fellow New Hampshire gal who moved to Boise in 2013. So how’s the East Coast weather today? this fine day in July?
I’m going to Hampshire a couple a couple weeks actually. So for vacation so well to Lake Squam.
Oh, very nice. Excellent.
Cool. So nice. Nice to have that connection as well. Thank you for sharing sort of kind of your trajectory, your path. What have you found to be the most interesting developments in your field over the last five years? How has it changed?
Yeah, it’s definitely um, you know, recruiting today is a very technically driven Roll and you really have to know technology well to do your job. Well, I think if I had to pick out a few kind of trends, I guess, number one is sourcing has really grown in the last, you know, three to five years or so many sourcing tools now you can use to go out and find talent that you just never had before all kinds of people with databases and, and things like that. You’ve got people like Google and Facebook coming into the market. You know, Google has basically ETS now they have a job board. And some other different cloud solutions that florists can take advantage of Facebook has a job board now. So you’re seeing kind of the the big guys traditionally tech companies really get inserted into the, you know, talent, attraction business overall. And I think the, the kind of the most recent thing is really the recruiting automation taking place. through things like putting chatbots and, and that type of AI technology to help assist and augment the job of recruiting rule of law.
That is some significant change of placing ads in the classifieds for someone.
One of the things that you’ve kind of I believe coined is the employer value proposition. Can you tell me what does that mean?
Yeah, I didn’t coin it. It’s basically, it’s a way for companies to create a met create messaging around who they are, what they have to offer potential employees. It’s something that I think every employer needs, you need a reason why you should come work there. And that message should be then promoted out to potential candidates overall. But essentially, you know, if you break it down, boil it down. I’ve done a few of these projects. Over the last couple years, it’s essentially coming up with a sort of a tagline, and then a set of supporting statements around why it’s good to work there overall. So for instance, the last one I did was for the state of Connecticut, for instance. So I did a whole survey project with their employee base. Research what people are saying on indeed and Glassdoor the reviews and we came up with a set of with a tagline, and a set of supporting statements that kind of focus on what their core benefits are. And we use that that messaging to go out there and promote to candidates on their career site, on their social recruiting channels and things like that. The VP tagline ended up being make an impact with the CT at the end of impact capitalized. And that’s kind of why what we use to promote the the overall opportunities that the State offers potential candidates, it’s a place to come serve your state make an impact to your fellow citizens things like that around you know, the wire the wire to come work there overall. So it’s kind of in a nutshell what it is basically.
So let’s say a company has never created one. What would be your kind of how many people should be involved in creating one is only led by HR like, what would be your quick tips on For my next job ad, I don’t have any say I don’t have one. But I do.
You know, I work for one of the companies I worked for as a recruiter was a small e commerce software company, we had about 10 people, it was the first crew they ever hired. And one of the first things I did to kind of find out this stuff was basically I just did a an email blast to the people who work there. And I said, simply, why do you like to work here, reply back with one or two things that you think are great about working at this organization. And I didn’t use that that content that they gave me into, you know, I built a little PowerPoint deck on top 10 reasons to come work here. Right and I use their voice, they use their actual words that they told me about why they like coming to work every day. And I use I use their voice and he was very authentic, you know, transparent enough to basically write it on my own. I use the employee base of leverage. The employees that were there, let them speak and tell me why. And that’s basically an easy way of doing something like that overall. Any EDP project, whether it’s, you know, you doing yourself or hiring a firm to do is going to do a survey anyway. And at the time, I didn’t realize I was doing a VP project, I was just trying to figure out, Okay, well, I need I need, I need weapons here to go out there and, and, you know, for the war for talent here and attract people to the company, and I need reasons why and they helped give me those.
That’s fantastic. I love that. I love that answer. Because I think it’s very authentic. And often we don’t know why people want to work for us. So why not ask the people who do work for us, and it gives us a lot of clarity.
Yeah, you’d be surprised at what you know the answers you get, you know, stuff you just you wouldn’t think of individually. That wisdom of the crowd is really good for uncovering these things.
For sure, and have you so just to make sure that I And so you’ve got when you create this, you’ve asked people, I love the fact that you’re talking about, you know, putting it in a video format, like you hear how people are saying it, as opposed to just words. So how do you then incorporate that into your posting? How have you done that? creatively?
Yeah, so it’s a question. Um, I would say that, you know, there’s a few tactics you can use to use obviously, when he puts his messaging on your career site, overall. You know, a lot of companies now will have their tagline, if up tagline kind of front and center, as soon as you go to their careers page. That’s the message that you see overall, and then below there, you can kind of support the different aspects of why can we work there, but from a tactical standpoint, to you know, create a hashtag right around that overall. You see a lot of companies have a lot of big companies have their own career related hashtags. They used to go out there, and when they’re posting on social media, they hashtag their posts around that it could be something like, you know, let’s see here. You know, We are company name hashtags the hashtag right you’re seeing I’ve seen that a few times or life ads company name is hashtag obviously make an impact the hashtag B’s first a Connecticut overall so those are some little tips and tricks you can use it in there and then using you know when you’re creating visual posts on social media you have to be very visual these days on your social channels anyway I like to basically you know use the tagline as a almost like an icon a little logo if you will help with that as well. You want to constantly reinforce that messaging in everything you do. across social media, your career site your job with the job board g post on so on your on your job postings as well. You know, make sure you talk about EDP in the job posting whether it’s you know, in the bell company section or AB aligned at the top can help get people excited about why they can work their butts To use that messaging, wherever and whenever you are promoting your jobs.
Fantastic, I think with such a low employment rate currently, at least in our job market, and I’m sure Connecticut is no different. Trying to figure out exactly how you strategically roll out, roll out a strong campaign to capture all of the opportunities in social media as well as what platforms to post. So could you give us your expert advice on where to post how often to post, I get the tie back using hashtags and being consistent with your MVP. What is working well, like what is the like minimum, people should be doing to get exposure?
You know, just, I just did actually a proposal for a company I’ll use it as an example maybe, since it’s kind of top of mine. So this company is a it’s a blue collar company they do in warehouses and transportation and logistics. And it’s a very, you know, they’re looking for a very blue collar workforce over So for instance, for them, you know, I’m recommending that, you know, LinkedIn should not be a big part of what they’re actually doing from a promotional standpoint. They should be on places like Facebook and Instagram, which is really where those target audience lives overall. So, you know, I think on Facebook, you should be posting at least three times a week, around your company, your Facebook business page. If you don’t have a Facebook business page, get one or you could even create a Facebook careers page just for your career team and your HR department. You just want to keep it separate from the main one. Instagram is another big one, especially with millennials, that’s definitely a great place to go brand yourself overall. You want to leverage those particular channels as much as possible. It’s really you know, it’s really an omni channel approach these days, when it comes to attracting talent line. So you got your career site, you got your job board, you’ve got social media, email as well if you’re not emailing potential candidates In your database, missing on a chance to kind of nurture them a bit and talk to them on a regular basis. So you’ve seen a lot of companies now will have their, you know, countdown communities and at the very least, should be messaging them you know, at least once a month, telling them what’s new with your organization, getting them excited, welcoming new employees on they’re just really becoming a newsroom current newsroom for yourself overall, I think a lot of players struggle with content, so to speak, when it comes to attracting candidates, and you really have to take a kind of a proactive mindset and create content that resonates with potential audiences potential people who want to work there. So that means you know, showing off your workers in action. You know, I love a one of my good onboarding trick is or tactic is to, you know, welcome all your new employees via social media, take a picture of them welcome then maybe do a little QA blog post with him and that’s a great piece of content. It’s easy to get That not only, you know, gives them some puts them in the spotlight a bit and kind of welcomes in creates a really great feel for the onboarding process overall. And so piece of content you can use to, to populate your social media channels.
And something that they can use to share with their, you know, friends and colleagues and you know, people who possibly are also recruitable candidates.
Yeah, that reminds me to you know, it gets your employees involved as well on social media, free to get ambassadors to come on and reshare your content, you know, and that’s one of the ways you can actually get more engagement with their social media posts is to basically get people to like, comment reshare everything you post online, that’s only going to help the algorithms on all these platforms, whether it’s LinkedIn, Facebook, whatever, the more engagement you have on that particular post, the more people are going to see it. And so it’s imperative to really get your team involved and ask them, help them, you know, help ask them to participate in what you share online because it’s only going to help them help you overall.
I appreciate the fact that you pointed out, you know, obviously targeting the right type of social media channel to the right market that you’re trying to fill the position for. Is it okay? If I asked you if there’s a rule of thumb of which, what you’ve seen as the best ROI for a professional, white collar job and then maybe even just, you know, a blue, a blue collar job, like what’s the right platform to pay to post the job? I think you just kind of covered social media.
Okay, I’ll go over to gaming. Facebook is definitely on the blue collar side of things overall. Whereas LinkedIn is more white, nothing more white collar. There was discussion video I saw on Facebook about Twitter going to a couple recruiting groups and somebody was asking about is Twitter so relevant? It’s, it’s it’s not the greatest thing for for companies over I mean, I would just basically automate Twitter if I could. But definitely like our LinkedIn stuff, getting people to comment on your posts, so having that company pages is really valuable. You can post you know, every piece of content you post on social media, Allison. So it’s like every five posts you have, you know, one should be a job, essentially, the rest should be more stuff about why you want to come work there, you know, highlighting a new employee, a piece of news, anything else besides a job? Because there’s too many jobs already on social media. So you definitely want to highlight the benefits of working for your company in these posts, and really give jobseekers an inside look at what it’s like to work there. That’s what I that’s why they want to. That’s why the reason is stuff. I’ve heard Instagram described as the Glassdoor for millennials, the visual Glassdoor for millennials overall, it’s a it’s a visual look at your organization. So show it off right show People in training, show him at work, show events that your company overall and make it a very visual strategy in your part. One of my, one of my former employers does little quizzes every now and then and their Instagram stories, for instance, about the cruise lines, they quiz people with ships, you know where they’re going things like that. That’s a great little tactic, right? using those, leveraging those platforms. And just kind of, you know, making educated yourself on, on the platforms themselves are constantly changing, changing focus. You know, the algorithms are constantly changing. And so it’s really imperative that today’s recruiting team or pretty marketing team, stay on top of these different trends and tactics, because landscape is constantly shifting and it’s kind of hard to keep up sometimes.
Do you have a favorite platform?
Yeah, so follow me. I definitely push out a lot of that stuff in my crosshairs. a podcast called rec tech. Do a webinar series around this as well, rec tech live calm around that. But you just Google there are so many. I’ll give you a great example some Facebook groups to go to. You can join recruiters online sources for code, recruiting marketing tactics, Facebook corporate employers group. If you go on Facebook today, you just do a search for recruiting recruiters. And you click over to the group’s tab, you’ll see a whole list of these I belong to probably 20 of them. And they’re really good water cooler for recruiters to go and learn. Overall, you’re seeing a lot of interactions on there with, hey, I’m about to install this applicant tracking system, what do you know about it? Or how do you do this? How do you do that? It’s a really great learning tool overall. So it’s, that’d be my number one tip for, for recruiters out there, go and join these Facebook groups and start learning overall checking with your other colleagues.
Fantastic. So you just mentioned to you run around rec tech podcast. How long have you been doing that?
I’ve been podcasting for over 10 years probably the rec tech podcast, something I started doing a venture back out on my own after the recruiting gigs ended. So it’s been about three years now. And I talked to both practitioners and vendors in this space on how to use technology to hire talent, overall, has to go to some I go to conferences as well in space. So I do some on the scene reporting interviews as well. To help recruiters out there learn and to me as to be recruited today, you have to learn you have to keep on top of this stuff. So podcasts are a great way to do that. We actually have a site called HR podcasters, calm, which aggregates 30 plus different recruiting podcasts and HR podcasts out there. So that’s a good resource as well to tap into. But go just feel subscribed to view these shows. They’re all free, and it’s all free learning out there. So it’s there for the Taking if you want it.
Fantastic. So from, from all of the interviews you’ve done over the last 10 years, and what’s the most interesting thing you’ve learned from one of your guests.
So I’ll give a shout out to my friend Tim Sackett, who you may know or may not. He was, He’s, uh, he runs a staffing firm out in Michigan. And we’re doing an interview one day and I asked him, you know, we were talking about finding new recruiters to come on, you know, work for him, things like that. And he goes, you know, Chris, one of my, one of my best source sourcing stores I ever had was, I knew this priest, and he was a pastor at some church, and he’s looking to basically do something different. He want to be a pastor any longer, because it wasn’t really paying the bills for him and his family. And so he hired a priest to come and be a recruiter for him. And so I call it the pastor to ever recruiting pipeline and just recognize it as kind of a interesting funny story in terms of, you know, where to go find recruiters these days, he was looking for somebody who, who knew how to talk and connect with people. And the pastor certainly does it right. He’s got the skills to do that. And I thought that was a great story overall. And very ingenious of him to go out and, you know, hire this pastor, right. I mean, if you put a job on today for recruiter and, and a pastor applied to it, chances are nine out of 10 companies are not going to hire that person, but 10 days and I canproduce it they have all the right skills, right. Yeah, exactly. report so they make sense to me.
I love that. That’s, that’s a great. That’s a great tip.
So I’ve got a couple more questions. So what are the top mistakes that you see companies or recruiters do when writing their job descriptions or their advertisement most?
Great question, and definitely a pet peeve in the industry. You’ve seen a lot of people talk about this lately. I am online. The thing that you have to think about remember about job descriptions is that a job description is not a substitute for a job ad, overall job posting wholeheartedly, you are posting stuff online, do not cut and paste from your applicant tracking system. Because the chances are that posting that description is just a bunch of bullet points that does not talk to the candidate does not sell the job. It does not excite the candidate about trying to get into apply and that’s what the goal of a job posting is, is to sell that opportunity to convince them to click the Apply button immediately and get them to convert. And if you start to change, think about that mindset a bit. And you can go back to your job descriptions and turn them into job ads or job postings that speak to the candidate. So you know removing a lot of the corporate speak all the things you jargon all the acronyms that mean nothing to the average job. So you have to go. You have to really now focus on a diverse candidate pool as well and get rid of those words like rock star, and things like that to speak maybe only to a male audience in order to attract more women as well.
I totally think I’m a rock star so that would apply to me too.
Now like texts do out there and tap recruit as well, they will they will kind of analyze your job description and tell you to strip off these words to make it more diverse sounding and things like that are coming out. So it’s really important that’s the biggest mistake I see today is just that cut and paste mentality and not really taking just a little fresh. Look at that. The text on that on that listening. Because the words go a long way words matter of fact, when I was looking for my first recruiting job and I applied to this job, I read it and they actually had a copywriter read I found out later, they had a copywriter write this thing. And it really spoke to me as far as who I was and what I wanted to do. And that’s the reason why I applied for the job because I really loved how they describe the ad, the job itself in the posting, and they took the time to actually do that, overall. And that’s a, that’s a great thing to do, I think also hire a copywriter. I heard somebody there as your company who’s creative writing, and have them take a fresh look at their job postings.
In coaching my clients, often I’m brought on board because I’m helping them bring on either sometimes their first or their most important next position as part of a growth pattern. And they can be great at copying and pasting, like a job description that’s really boring from online, but their ability, typically to write an ad that’s fresh and really speaks the language is so difficult for them that having an outside person do it does just it brings life to a job that someone would want to have as opposed to just bore them to death. So I think that’s a great tip and too many people are just posting that Description. So I like your advice on that. Yeah.
Recruiters or HR people are not trained in writing. So it’s not their fault. But you should be able to recognize the fact that you need help with this stuff. Go out, find a good writer. There’s plenty of places to go do that. And definitely change it up.
Fantastic. I just wanted to quickly touch base on what is your favorite applicant software and why?
I’ll give shoutouts to my friends that greenhouse and my friends that smart recruiters, I’ll pick greenhouse because they do something which to me is a goes really towards converting more applicants online and they basically, they don’t require you to create an account in order to apply a lot of the older applicant tracking systems out there for you to when you click the Apply button, you may be presented with a page that says Create your accounts. And that’s where jobseekers basically stop applying at that point. It’s a barrier to entry. entry. All right. But greenhouse basically has, right below the listing itself are all the fields need to do to apply, boom, it’s quick, there’s no need to create an account. And it definitely increases the conversions over time as you use it. And I’m a former user of smart recruiters as well. One of my old jobs, they do a great job at the user experience as well. They’ve got an app that you can use as a recruiter to help make your job easier and more efficient overall, I don’t think a lot of ETS have an app. And so I’ll give him credit for that as well and point that out. Awesome.
Good recommendations. So you have a crystal ball, right? Sure. Can you can you envision how recruiting is might change in the next five years. What would your crystal ball tell us?
I think we’re it’s evolving into a much more automated process overall. So you’re seeing these things like chat bots Come on now, but she fewer high volume employer, you hire a lot of people, thousands each year. These chat bots are now kind of becoming little virtual recruiters, if you will, they are screening the candidates. And some cases are actually scheduling the interview for the candidates as well to screen them out. So then to reject him at that point, you’ve got things like video interviewing happening now asynchronous where you can basically answer a question, spit it back up to the cloud, and then wait for the employer to respond back so the atomization of recruiting is happening. And it’s only going to get stronger as the years Come, come faster here. chat bots are giving a lot of funding in HR tech, venture capital. And so it’s a big piece of what’s happening overall. So the job like the recruiter assistant, is definitely kind of being taken over by these by these chat bots overall. So that’s a big thing of What’s happening and then I see it part of it, you know, it’s definitely part of it’s a good thing to write. You know, there’s some pretty good evidence now that these automated text reminders, things like that are really helping to prevent ghosting. for employers, you need people to show up. And actually interviews instead of being, you know, banning them just not coming and not showing up, which has been a big problem. So, I think overall, it’s a pretty good thing, you just have to kind of make sure we balance it between enough human activity and the right amount of technology to make sure that overall experience is good for both candidate employer.
From the automation standpoint, and kind of the tracking software, one awesome tool that the one at least I have the most experience using offers is that as soon as an applicant applies, that it auto calls them and basically takes them and then asks them to leave a voice recording and you could ask them anything at all the ability to do ability to see that as part of the applicant process, especially in a role that might make sense that someone might be customer facing or have to think logically or be able to effectively communicate or you know, whatever it may be, you can tell a lot about a candidate and how they leave a voicemail message.
Oh, totally. I love that idea of calling them as soon as they apply and thanking them. That’s pretty cool.
Yep, it does. People notice it. And they either, you know, immediately hang up and go, don’t want that or so it’s one of the hoops and I call them hoops. I kind of look for things to deselect a candidate on if it makes sense. And that’s one of them. But I love that I love that feature. It’s made recruiting so much easier. Awesome. All right. So Chris, what do you see are the most common problems with career sites.
I think a lot of companies will bury the jobs on their career site, it’s kind of hard to find where to go to actually see the actual job opportunities. So I always want to see the word two jobs. For most friends center or at least have the latest jobs on the homepage right there on your career site. So they knew where to go to find those. And just overall just the lack of content. They talked about, you know, the, the hiring process or the benefits or things like that, like a dip i think is a is a big problem out there.
You also mentioned ghosting. So how common of a problem is this? And what can employers do about ghosting employees or ghosting by employees?
Leads pretty big for many companies out there particularly on the low end of scale, lower entry level jobs. People are just not showing up for interviews or look at they’ll get the job and not show up to go to the job because they found something better in the meantime. So it is a real problem out there. The Wall Street Journal did a story on it last year. They got a lot of play and talk in Korean circles. And they’re kind of the cure to that is really is constantly reminding that person, hey, you have an interview or your start date is here. And so if you have an interview on like a Monday, you should remind them on Friday and also Sunday nights to make sure they show up it will really increase the amount of show rates Overall. But yeah, there’s a problem out there for many companies. And it’s something that technology can certainly help with.
I think a certain amount of ghosting has happened in the recruiting, you know, platform that I help clients with. And I just plan for work, should someone not show up. But I am a coach of you either own being there or you don’t. And I don’t like to babysit anyone. So I have backup work just in case which is, which is a strategy. But it is it is a problem. How important is Glassdoor for recruiting?
Interesting. So it’s funny you mentioned I just had a call today with a client and he goes, Yeah, we paid the Glassdoor ransom to push our bad listings down. He called it a ransom.
Yes, it is.
If you have a bad rating on there, it’s not going to help that’s for sure. So I think is important for every company. As they have bad ratings to proactively take a more proactive approach with Glassdoor overall, you want to you know, get your employees involved, you want to, you know, when you get a person onboard after the first 30 days, ask them to go, you know, right there, you know, first or first month on the job, chances are, it’s going to be a good, a good review overall. But you’ve got to really take a get in there and manage that thing on a regular basis if you want to improve your scores overall. But it is important. You know, there are stories out there where companies I’m hearing, you know, just anecdotally, hey, you know, we’ve improved our Glassdoor rating, because, you know, we’re getting killed on interviews and things like that, because candidates are mentioning it. And they’re telling the companies Hey, I looked at your Glassdoor, and it’s not really good. So why should I come work here, you know, so it’s definitely it’s important today to do that to manage their reputation. Overall, that’s why pushing out content that kind of counteracts that message. Social media and your other channels is so important.
So in wrapping up, I just want to make sure I don’t know if we’ve really highlighted What does rec tech media do with companies? What do you what do you how do you help your clients?
So I’ll talk about the free stuff first, because it’s really where I love to talk about these things is I see our job, my job as basically helping to educate recruiters out there reach our people on the latest tips, tricks and tactics about finding talent online. And so by pushing out content for them, whether it’s through our podcast, whether it’s through our webinar series, or I take law Comm. We also have a aggregator called recruiting headlines, which basically aggregates a bunch of different news blogs for the industry and some vendors as well. And then pushes out a daily email to you for the latest headlines out there. It’s great free tools take advantage of I do, you don’t get on my newsletter list. I push out lots of content on making these making you better recruiters out there overall. So definitely take advantage of that stuff. So I spend probably a third of my week working on that stuff. And then the other rest of time I basically do consulting for both employers and vendors. I do. I just finished a cover site audit for a company where broke down their career site, and tell them what was wrong with it, how I should fix it. Overall. I’m doing some digital recruiting campaigns for a company in the mental health field to fill some other therapist positions. So we’re starting some Google and Facebook advertising campaigns for them. And of course, it EDP consultations and all that kind of good stuff. So it’s kind of a nutshell, which can find me doing on a regular basis.
Fantastic. Well, I know, I know that recruiting is one of the biggest challenges that probably our country faces at this point in time. So thank you for being an expert in that particular segments. I just want to make sure that our listeners have an opportunity to understand how they can reach you. So what would be your preferred like where would you direct them to learn more about you And your company.
Yeah. Thanks, Alison. rectechmedia.com. You can find me on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, even Facebook. Just feel free to reach out. And my email is Chris@rectechmedia.com.
Fantastic. Chris, thank you so much for the opportunity to connect with you today and kind of get the lowdown on your area of specialty. It’s been a pleasure having you on the show.
Oh, thank you, Alison. It’s a pleasure being here and thanks for the opportunity. Awesome.
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