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Good afternoon. I’m Allison Dunn and the owner of Deliberate Directions your business coach. And this afternoon we have Monica Jansen with us. She is the copywriter, strategist and owner of Jansen Communications. Her company has worked with Groupon web.com the Bozzuto? Is that how you say that? Bozzuto yeah.
As well as many other small businesses. Monica, thank you so much for being here with us today.
Thank you so much for having me. Allison. I’ve been looking forward to this.
I have been as well. So um, I’m super curious about what you do on a daily basis. And so we’re going to kind of dive into the idea of like, what’s the copywriter and what do they do? So how did you even get into copywriting to begin with?
Um, that is an awesome question. I was like a lot of 20 somethings where I kind of meandered in my career. I knew I majored in marketing. I knew I wanted to be in marketing. But it took a little while for me to find where. In the marketing world. It’s a long story, I’m not going to tell it. But when my, when my son was a year and a half of my daughter was in kindergarten, I was like, okay, I need to do more than work really, really part time for a nonprofit as their editor. So I launched my own copywriting shop, and that grew into a small content marketing agency. So there’s currently six of us. And copywriting is at the core, obviously, of every single thing that that we do. But we also do a ton of, you know, marketing stuff, right? We don’t just sit and write. There’s a lot of marketing strategy behind what we do,
I’m sure and that’s kind of what I’m hoping we can pick your brain on a little bit today because copywriting is only so good. It’s what you do with it after you write it. Right.
All right. So I’ve got a quote from you. Here. You said I’m a huge believer in writing content that is entirely customer centric, it directly speaks to the customer’s needs. And the challenges focused on the benefits the client gets. And it’s relevant useful helpfulness. So what is the process around creating customer centric content?
My favorite topic, so I’m so glad this is the first question we’re starting with. Let me just back up a bit before I answer that question. Now, it’s very natural for us. And we’re just wired as humans to do this is to talk about ourselves. We are our own favorite subjects. So if you’ve ever read, if you’ve ever read Dale Carnegie’s classic, How to Win Friends and Influence People. One of his tips is ask people about themselves, just keep asking questions, keep listening to them, and they are going to walk away thinking they just had the best conversation in the world because they just talked about themselves for your 30 minutes or, or whatever. So, you know, my point is we want to talk about ourselves, you know, we want to share what we do, we’re excited about that. But if you think about your customer or your client, they don’t really care about you and what you do they want to know what you are going to do for them. Okay, so once that is established, yes, they’ll get to know and love you as they as they work with you, and then they will truly care about you. But right at the beginning, they really do not care about you. They care about themselves, how you are going to help them and a lot of companies get this wrong. They go right out of the gate talking about we do this, we do that for our clients. Here’s our process. No, no, no, you always start by thinking what are your clients biggest challenges are their biggest pain points what you do to help them what are the benefits working with you. And so you write all of your copy, turn it around. So instead of just completely talking about yourself, you’re now talking to your audience. You’re not talking at them.
So do you have some techniques on how to do that?
Ah, gosh, that’s hard. That’s it’s kind of abstract to explain it. Okay. That’s fair. That’s fair. Yeah. But I mean, I would think about, you know, you’re schooled with, you know, an elevator pitch and in your elevator pitch, you really want to talk about your value proposition. So I’d really say that that’s the best place to start is with your value proposition. What value are you providing, because you automatically are going to stop talking about me, me, me, me, me and start talking about you, you and me, and how you can work together. Let’s say so I would start if you know if you’re talking to someone at a, at a cocktail party, oh, what do you do? Well, it’s really boring to say, I’m, I’m an accountant. Right? They might turn around and walk away. They’re like, I’m not going to have a conversation with this person. But if you instead frame it and say, I help, and I’m stealing this from my accountant, this is her. This is her tagline or a value proposition. She would say to you, I help my clients live the best life with the money that they have. Okay, that’s cool. How do you do that? Now, that is interesting, right? You want
You want to have a conversation about way more interesting than saying you’re an accountant.
For sure. That’s great. Okay, so that is a good example of how you turn it around so that someone could say like, so tell me more, right? They’re interested and so you’ve created this customer centric content and in you formulate it in some type of great writing piece. What is it that you do next? How do you attract the right audience to it? What tips do you have for that?
Okay, great. So you know this analogy is used all the time from the movie Field of Dreams. Build it and they will come. This is only applicable to that movie. That’s not true.
Tell me I’ve just been doing it wrong.
Yeah, exactly. So in the business world, you can’t just build it and they and expect people to show up you’re not it’s like a tree falling in the forest. If no one is there to hear it fall does anyone hear so you write this beautiful article. You know in which you share like some of your top you know secrets or you know, stuff that people have started to notice in the industry don’t really know or talk about got this beautiful piece of writing are excited to share it. Well, you don’t just put it up on your website. You have to push it out to people, right? You have to get it out through email, through an email newsletter. And I know a lot of people are like, oh, email, I hate email, my inbox is overwhelmed. Well, email marketing has an ROI of 4,400%. And that number has not changed in years. Yes. dated with email 4,400%. This number hasn’t changed in years, in years, so you think about your own inbox, okay. The promotional emails that you get a lot of them you ignore, but I bet there’s a couple of companies who send out really high quality stuff and you see it land in your inbox and I’m going to set this aside. I’m going to read it during lunch or you know, when I just need a brain break from work, you actually do read it. Okay. So yes, email marketing does work. And the other thing obviously is Social media, social media marketing. One of the biggest misconceptions of social media marketing is you have to be an expert in every single channel. You have to be using every channel. Oh my god, I need to be on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn and Twitter. And am I supposed to be on Pinterest too? I don’t know. And what about Snapchat and people just get overwhelmed very quickly and runaway? Well, you only need to be on the channels where your audiences are, okay? Doesn’t matter what channels you like to use, or what channels you think your audience likes to use or which channels you’re most comfortable with using. You have to be on the channels that they use. So if we think about, you know, if you’re a b2b company, like I am like you are LinkedIn, your audience is absolutely going to be on LinkedIn. They go there for business related information. For most b2c companies, you want to consider Facebook and Instagram. Twitter can be great for both. But again, it depends on where your audience is.
Have you found? Or can you allude to the secrets that you use? So that I agree LinkedIn? I’m b2b mostly. And that is the channel in which I get the most engagement. Is there best practices of how long something should be when you’re posting it on LinkedIn? I mean, any tips that you could give to my b2b clients that would be looking for that guidance from a professional copywriter?
Yeah, cool. Yeah, absolutely. So there’s, you know, there’s two ways to share information on LinkedIn, you can publish an article or you can share a post in terms of let’s start with the latter with the post, I mean, you’re going to have a beautiful graphic, whether it’s a photo you took, or your photo you downloaded from a stock photo site or a graphic that you create on Canva is, you know, a secret weapon for every marketer agreed, and we love it.
It’s so easy to use yet takes a little while to get going. But once you get it, you get it. So definitely start with an image and then you know you it’s kind of like Facebook, right? You only get so much room for your text. So definitely keep it short. The image the graphic should be telling the bulk of the story.
What’s interesting is I findnot everyone is going to click on that read more button.
Right? Is there a value to having a read more button there though? I may have had to leave it.
Yeah, because if people like what you’re talking about, they they’re going to want to continue. So you know, to read and get to the rest of your thought.
Um, how many clients do you do you work with on a on a regular basis like typically?
Oh my gosh. I’d say right now we’ve got like, maybe 15 clients, we typically will we have in the past worked with anywhere between like 15 and 30 clients a month, which is a lot. And it’s changing now we’ve got fewer and bigger clients. And before we have graduations smaller clients, yes, yeah.
All right. So what is the typical size client you’re working with? And I don’t know, client sizes, like revenue for you like how do you how do you equate?
Yeah, it’s typically revenue, okay. Because we, we need our ideal clients have a marketing budget. Right, of course. And, yeah. And so that’s generally based on revenue. I mean, you can be a solopreneur making $5 million, or $10 million a year, right. So we don’t like to limit based on the number of employees. It’s definitely revenue. I can’t remember the exact percentage, but there is a percentage out there. I think it’s around 20% of your annual revenue should be spent on marketing.
That’s the number that we use. I like that number. That’s a good number.
Yeah, I need to find it. I can send it to you. It’s, it’s from operations consultants that I’ve worked with. Okay.
That’s funny. I usually say it should be no less than 8%. Yes. And that if you’re in a growing company, it could be double.
Yeah, 20 would be double Yeah. 20. But yeah, with growth would be doubled up. Yeah but we, you know, we don’t expect companies to spend all of their marketing budget with us and they shouldn’t right because we’re one part of the marketing puzzle. They might want to do influencer marketing they want might want to do experiential, you know, in person marketing or events. So, there’s got to be enough. You know, we can’t do everything right. So there’s got to be enough to go around.
So in the area that you help clients, and obviously being clients that have a healthy marketing budget of some sort to hire a copywriter, what is the biggest challenge that you’ve seen over and over again, in the companies you’re working with from either content?
Social media, you know, regardless of what platform it is. There’s three challenges, okay. That the vast majority of our clients suffer from. Okay, I’ve heard that one before. Yep. Content Marketing requires a lot, a lot of time. You have to be continually creating new stuff and getting it out there. Right. So it’s not just like we talked about before, it’s not just writing. It is making sure that you are sending it out in your monthly newsletter, which means you’re setting aside time to create your monthly newsletter. Write it and to do the layout and add images and write subject lines because you always want to AB test subject lines whenever you send out a newsletter. And then with social media, you are planning your posts, you are planning your images, they might be different from the image you used in your blog post, you might want to pull out a quote and create a quote on Canva and get it out there. But social media is social, it’s not a bullhorn. So you also need to spend time on social media interacting with people liking stuff, commenting on stuff sharing stuff. So yes, content marketing is very, very time consuming. Right. So that is one of the biggest challenges or that is actually the biggest challenge our clients face. The second biggest challenge is actually writing like a lot of people, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. I mean, they know their stuff. They know their industry. They are incredible at what they do, but they hate writing. They hate it, they would rather, you know, do all their bookkeeping. Then write a blog post. And then the third biggest challenge is just marketing knowledge. You know, it’s always changing. It’s very confusing, and people just get overwhelmed. What should I even be doing? I don’t even have a strategy in place. I don’t know what to start with. What I don’t need to focus on what I can only spend some time on, you know, what channels should I be on? So it’s a combination of those three things that we see. We have these conversations a lot.
So I think kind of my next question was, what advice would you give to help someone managing those three major challenges to hire someone to help you write your content, potentially?
Yes, yes. All the time don’t if you hate doing it, don’t torture yourself. There’s literally no reason to do that someone will do it. A professional copywriter will do it better and faster than you I guarantee it. You know, I’ve heard clients say, oh my god, I spent five hours on this blog posts, and it’s like, 600 words. And I’m like, I could have written that in like 45 minutes and they’re like, what? So yes, absolutely outsource that. But if you do enjoy writing, and you just never have time for it, well, this comes this comes down to productivity and time management. Right? If you’re going to block out time on your calendar, I do this I block out time every week for writing and for marketing stuff, that time is sacred. I do not move it. If I had if that is my only free time on my calendar for the whole week and a new client wants to talk then nope, we push off to the next week. Like you really have to honor that time and not give it over to something else. Because once you start doing that, then you’re going to keep on, you’ll just you’ll repeat the pattern and you’ll keep pushing it. Keep pushing it off.
I love the fact that you’re saying honor the time. I think that is one of the biggest challenges that even just as a business owner, like you’re trying to do all the things so if you have time set aside for that to make sure.
Just honor and I know when it’s like for me, I set aside time every week. Some people it just depends on how you work. I know some people prefer to set aside a huge block of time once a month. Okay. All right. So they might set aside three or four hours or whatever on an entire day to create content that actually is exhausting for me. And I’m a professional. Like I cannot write all day like I get tired. I like to break it up.
And then you know, the other challenge in terms of marketing knowledge. I mean, that’s just all about reading. I mean, just do the best you can. None of us are perfect. None of us do marketing perfectly. None of us can keep on top of everything. So yeah, cut yourself a little slack.
There you go. That’s also excellent advice. And one of one of the things that I hear a lot of, at least local companies talking about is how the strategy behind launching a campaign or launching a product or launching a program. And I would love any insider perspective that you have on how to do it effectively, and how not to do it maybe by having done it wrong, if you could share. As we’re learning.
I’ve made every mistake in the book. Well, let’s start with how to do it effectively. I mean, any new campaign any new program starts with listening.You need to listen to make sure there is a need for whatever this new thing is that you want to put out into the world. Okay? So listen for the need, and then start listening for more specifics. Gosh, I’m trying to think of a really good example.
Okay, you know, I just took a sip of water. So let’s say you have like some new water filter, okay, that you’re putting out into the market. You listen to know that your specific filter, no one else does what you’re doing. Okay? It’s not like a Brita kind of filter. It’s a portable filter. You can take it for, you know, wherever you want to go, Well, people aren’t always on the move. So is there another filter that’s larger that people can keep on their kitchen counter, or that can stay in the break room with an office like, are there other needs that are also important and maybe they’re more important? Than the one that you’ve identified. Okay. All right. So listen, listen, listen, and then start jumping even before you go to market. Start jumping in to those conversations online and offering your advice or, or your thoughts start become a part of the conversation ahead of time, if you can.
How? How do you find opportunities to do that? Or what would you suggest? Let’s use the water example.
keywords, keywords, keywords.
Great. So all right. So look for hashtag, exactly hashtags. So let’s say you’re on Instagram, right with your you’re looking, poking around on Instagram, with your water filter, I mean, start punching in every single hashtag you can think of, okay, see what people are saying around those hashtags. You’ll find the hashtags that are most relevant for you. But you’re also going to be keywords that you’re going to want to include and the content that you create. And look to see what people are saying and respond to them follow them on Instagram. You know, Instagram and Twitter are very quid pro quo, right you follow someone they tend to follow you back. Not always but generally speaking, it’s not always like that on LinkedIn or Facebook. Yeah. So follow them follow them back and just start commenting. Maybe look to see what who the other people are who are commenting on a post and maybe you can follow them again, you know, you have to spend a lot of time on social media if you want it to work for you. But this is it’s so important to do this to do this work at the beginning. Instead of just pushing it out there hoping for the best and realizing you’re going about it all wrong. And then you have to backpedal you’ve wasted all this time and money.
Okay, that’s fair. So Monica, what is your favorite keyword search tool?
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So when I’ve writer’s block, which I do get, every once in a while, I will go on to buzzsumo and just start punching in marketing related keywords to see what people are writing about.
Oh, good. That’s brilliant. I love that. How many keywords or hashtags should one use in a social media post?
So for Twitter, no more than two otherwise it looks spammy. And Facebook doesn’t really use hashtags that much. I mean, you can throw one in, but content isn’t really, you know, sorted around hashtags. It’s sorted around affiliations, friendships, Instagram, you can use as many as you want.
Okay, any rule of thumb on that one?
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I mean, I won’t. I won’t do more than like, okay, yeah, I wouldn’t do more than 10 or 15. Okay, that seems like a lot. I usually do two. But maybe two is not enough. So I don’t know.
Yeah. You know, what if, but you know what if two works for you and your brand, then great, you know, you’re not going to know until you try and until you start experimenting,
For sure. Okay, so permission to experiment. That’s another good tip. That’s all marketing is experimenting.
Just out of curiosity, are you also the content distributor? So you write the content? Are you also the one who pushes it out into onto platforms for your clients as a service? Yes, excellent. What tool are you using?
So okay, so for email marketing, we use MailChimp. Okay, great. So a couple of our clients use Constant Contact, honestly there. There’s not a huge difference between email marketing platforms. They all have a free version. They all have similar features. I think that the difference comes when you want to start pick paying for features. Those features the paid features might be different, but I think only one of our clients pays for MailChimp. He’s got a huge list of like over 5500 Well, no, wait, that’s just one list. He probably has like seven or 8000 total names, okay? So he has to pay for it. Okay, so MailChimp for email marketing for social media marketing. The dashboard we like the best is Hootsuite which is what we use as well buffer.
Yep, buffer is also fantastic. But yeah, I’m partial to Hootsuite. I’ve been using it for a long time.
Okay. Fantastic. And for. For newsletters, you’re just going through your regular CRM. There’s nothing else outside of that for a platform. Correct?
Correct. I will share this one tip though, for email marketing. You know, you do have the option of sending out plain text emails. We only use plain text when we’re doing an automated lead generation campaign. Because those emails look more personal. It doesn’t look like this big marketing thing coming at you. Okay? It’s a lot more personal. So I, I always, I mean, some people try to get around it and be like, oh, well, I’m just going to send from my email. No, no, no, no, no, no, do not send from your email. Use, use an email marketing platform and choose your plain text feature.
Okay. Can I ask you a couple of questions specifically regarding that, so plain text and meaning there’s no visuals, there’s no flashy elements to it? It looks like a personal email to you.
Yes, when except you can unsubscribe from it.
Except you can unsubscribe which is an important feature to have.
When do you not use plain text? When is it okay and needed to be more visually pleasing?
Definitely yes for any newsletter if you do a weekly newsletter if you do a monthly newsletter people expect there to be visuals and colors and a nice layout buttons you know for call to actions. So, it’s worth taking the time to create a really beautiful template that looks like your brand.
So brand appropriate for newsletters, but email campaigns that are more lead generating plain text.
Okay good. Thanks for that.
You can add links in the plain text, right? You can’t add you know, fancy buttons or anything. Okay.
Good because it looks like promotion. Yes. Okay. All right. What are the five types of social media posts that are you useful to customers?
Ooh, okay, so this are top five. I’m not going to say it depends because even though that is an depends on what your goals are. Okay? It depends on your industry. It depends on what your clients want to hear from you. But I would say there’s, gosh, there’s so many. There’s so many options here. Let’s start with it. What I recall consumable posts. Okay, so I mentioned this earlier, like a little quote in Canva. Or, you know, Question of the Week in Canva, something that people will consume in a couple of seconds, like move on, right? You’re staying in front of them, they’re engaging with you, but you’re not asking a lot of a lot from them. You’re not asking for a lot of time for a lot of thought. It’s just like little treat a little piece of candy and then move on. Alright. And this is on LinkedIn too. I mean, this is not I’m not just talking about like Facebook or Instagram. This works on LinkedIn, too. I shared a post today on LinkedIn. It was just a quote, probably created in Canva. And said, if you think hiring a professional is expensive, just wait until you hire an amateur. And I shared it from someone else. And then I’ve already seen two other people have shared it. Yeah. Right. takes a couple seconds to read it. It’s shareable. It’s quick to consume. It’s very shareable. All right, video, okay. Video posts video is, I mean, we all know it’s huge. And I know so many people who are wonderful, wonderful in person. They’re so personable. They will tell me they’ll take selfies all day long, but you put a video camera in front of them and they’re like,
I would absolutely create short videos like with a quick tip or oh my gosh, I had this conversation with someone today and I really wanted to share it with you because this is a problem that so many of our clients run into. And here’s the advice that I gave, you know, it doesn’t have to be. I mean, look, I’m in my home office, I don’t have a fancy background. You don’t it doesn’t have to be a slick production. You know, it just records something real quick. Get it out there.
Okay, so we did video, we did consumable, long form content, believe it or not, and I’m talking like over 2000 words, people love that stuff. And with long form content comes long form. Blog post titles, believe it or not, long blog post titles between 10 and 15 words are more shareable. on social media than a short five or six word blog post type, don’t ask me why I do not know this. This is a trust zoom. I think it was buzzsumo like a bunch of companies got together and analyzed like 900 million blog posts or something ridiculous or social media posts.
Yeah, it’s funny. We mail about 8500 people on our list on on a consistent basis now and I get people say, this is too long. People don’t read this stuff. And then other people go, I loved every word of it. Thank you.
It’s not for everyone that I’m telling you long form content. People love long form content. There’s so much information in it is so valuable. I mean, this is the stuff people bookmark and come back to you know, it’s like a favorite article, travel article that you read in a magazine, rip that thing out and you’re saving it for later. You know, you read it once and then you’re going to hold on to it. Okay, let’s see what else photos we already talked about photos. Absolutely every social media network, the sharing photos, and a tip around photos, if you’re going to be taking your own photos and sharing them, choose one filter and use that filter on all of your photos. So they have a similar look.
Do you have to choose a filter? No. Okay, so not so consistent, okay.
You can go filter lists, but you just want to, again have like a consistent look, feel. So when, when your photo comes up in a newsfeed, they’re going to be like, Oh, I recognize that. That’s Allison. Okay.
All right, that I think I could do a better job at that. That is good to know.
We did consumable. We did long. Video questions. Remember, what I said at the beginning of this interview as people love to talk about themselves, so you pose a question. People are like, Yes, I get to share, I get to share, they get excited about sharing. Now, this is not going to be true for every industry out there. It’s not going to be true for every audience out there. But generally speaking, people love to share they want to participate, and especially if you’re a brand that they really love interacting with and engaging with, they’re going to want they’re going to answer your question.
Is there a blend of how to use those? Or is it like, you should rotate a consumable than a video then, you know, one long form? I mean, it’s good to mix it up, right?
Rotate through it, and, and, you know, what people engage with, maybe they don’t like the consumables, maybe they’re all about long form articles. All right. These are the people who read The Economist, not People Magazine.
They want super, super long form. Again, experiment, experiment experiment. But yeah, absolutely rotate through these different kinds of, of content. So like one of our clients is a property management company in West Virginia and we use two kinds of content on his Facebook page. Okay name and a really crazy article about something housing related. Okay, people love both of them.
So his consistency is he’s using a meme and making it on every single time you post it and then a crazy like, off the charts. Interesting fact.
Yeah, like there’s one article that we posted is about haunted furniture.
So yeah, fun. Weird. Yeah. And this is what his and if you met Patrick In person, he is freaking hilarious. So it is completely on brand for who he is. And those are the people that he hires. So it’s, completely on brand for hhis company. Yep.
Very cool. I did have one more question. I guess we’ll make sure I haven’t already asked it. So do you have any formatting or tone tips to help people who are writing posts to feel more native to the platform that they’re using? Makes sense?
Yeah. Um, so let’s see. So in terms of formatting, there’s a general rule that we follow. And this is very different. We’re talking about marketing. Now remember, we’re not talking about journalism. So when you’re writing an article for marketing purposes, there are a couple things you want to pay attention to. One is very generous use of subheads people skim articles if they like what they say they might go back and read the whole thing, but they might just be looking for one tip they’ve never heard before. And maybe they you’ve got 10 tips. And three of them, they’re like, ooh, that’s a new one. But then the other seven they’ve heard of, so definitely use subheads. Okay, it makes it just a lot more reader friendly. Keep sentences short, is actually much harder to do then fewer words.
But again, it’s more reader friendly, and keep paragraphs short. So I like to keep paragraphs to two to three sentences. So what we’re looking for here is scalability, right? And then a lot of weight because where do we consume content? on our mobile phones, right? You don’t have a lot of you don’t have A lot of room on a mobile phone. So when you’re reading a blog post, the more white space, the less dense it looks, the more reader friendly it looks, the more likely people are going to read your stuff. Okay?
Those are all really good tips. Awesome. Thank you.
In sort of kind of a wrap up mode, I want to make sure that people understand that you’re an amazing resource. Your website has great marketing resources on it. And so you have a series of ebooks and checklists. And is there any, so what types of things can people learn by going over to your website? And then I’m going to ask you to also share what your website is so that they can capture that?
Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve got a small business guide to blogging, small business guide to social media marketing. There is a newsletter checklist, top 10 tips for web copy. I know I’m leaving some other stuff out. But definitely our blogging and social media marketing ebooks are the ones that are the most popular people download them all the time and if you do download it, guess what? You’re going to get dumped into an automated email lead gen campaign and you’re going to see the plain text emails come through and what it looks like you know to use plain text. So my company name is Janssen Communications and the website is janssencommunications.com
Fantastic and then my favorite question to ask everyone because there’s you know, people that we follow in our you know, industry best So who are the top influencers or influenced or that you follow and that you’d recommend to others to get advice on social media?
My favorite, favorite favorite? Okay, I’ve got two favorites. One is a man named Mark Schaefer. He lives in New Jersey. He’s still a professor at Rutgers, but he’s also a marketing consultant to like big companies. He writes, well, not quite daily, he might write twice a week or so but he’s got contributors. his blog is called grow. But if you look up Mark Schaefer, you’ll find him online, subscribe to his blog. It’s fantastic. I also absolutely love Scott Galloway. He is I don’t know why both of these are men and both of them are professors. He’s a professor at NYU Stern School of Business. He’s a serial entrepreneur. And yeah, if you look up Scott Galloway, you’ll find him. He writes once a week. He’s hilarious. He’s self deprecating. He’s extremely Smart he doesn’t just write about doesn’t really write about marketing so much. He writes about business and life. Fantastic.
Thank you very much for sharing your gurus that you like to follow. So this wraps up kind of where I was heading with this particular interview. Is there anything I didn’t think to ask you that you’d like to add?
Hmm, I think we covered a lot.
Monica, thank you so much for being here with us this afternoon. I appreciate you so much. Thank you so much, Monica.